Whether Defendants (the “Government”) are obligated under the First and Ninth Amendments
to the Constitution to respond with formal, specific answers to the questions in the Petitions for
Redress of
constitutional torts that were respectfully served on the Government by Plaintiffs (the“People”), and whether the People have the Right under the First and Ninth Amendments to
withdraw their financial support from the Government until their Grievances are Redressed
if theGovernment refuses to respond to those Petitions for Redress.
TO LAWYER MAYOR CHRISTOPHER B. COLEMAN| ID | LName | FName | MName | Suffix | City | State |
| 0187252 | COLEMAN | CHRISTOPHER | BRIEN | ST. PAUL | MN |
| ID | LName | FName | MName | Suffix | City | State |
| 0257175 | CHOI | JOHN | JUNG-HOON | ST PAUL | MN |
| ID | LName | FName | MName | Suffix | City | State |
| 0292047 | SEEBA | LOUISE | TOSCANO | ST. PAUL | MN |
"Code Enforcement Officer Steve Magners Deposition In The Racketeering Lawsuits Against The City Of Saint Paul"
36 Comments -
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- Bob said...
Friday
January 19, 2006
10:00 a.m.
Appearances.
Whereupon,
STEVE MAGNER,
EXAMINATlON
By: Mr. Shoemaker
after having been duly sworn, was examined and testified as
follows:
BY MR. SHOEMAKER:
MR. ENGEL: Matthew Engel, attorney for the Plaintiffs in the third lawsuit. With me today is my
legal assistant Tanya Hoven, Thomas Gallagher, Joe Collins, Sara Kubitschek and Troy Allison.
MS. SEEBA: Louise Seeba on behalf of Defendants. With me is the deponent Mr. Steve Magner, and also Mr. Lippert.
BY MR. SHOEMAKER:
Q. Good morning, Mr. Magner. My name is John Shoemaker and
I've got with me Frank Steinhauser and Steve Johnson
from the first two cases. Matt?
Mr. Magner, what's your full legal name with the full
middle name, please?
A. Steven Richard Magner.
Q. How many times have you given any kind of testimony in
A. I don't have a number.
Q. Does it happen frequently where a homeowner will talk to
you about the financial issues related to the particular
code compliance process?
A. It's happened. I don't have a number for you.
Q. If a homeowner's having difficulty with paying for the
necessary work, paying the contractors for materials,
and they are interested in obtaining an extension of
time, do they talk to you or your staff about that?
A. Extension of what time?
Q. Extension of time in order to get the projects done and
get the certification process completed?
A. They might contact us and inform us of that.
Q. Do you have the ability to grant extensions of time in
your overall policy of trying to move the renovations
ahead?
A. I'm unclear.
Q. My question is, do you' have the ability to grant an
extension to a homeowner that is seeking additional time
to complete the code compliance certification process?
A. I'm unclear about your question in regards to the time
frame.
Q. You mentioned that one of the interests you have in
monitoring buildings that are in the process of the code
compliance certification is to move them along. I can't remember exactly how you said that, but basically, to
make sure there's progress. Isn't that what you're
concerned about is to make sure that there is progress
in the rehabilitation of homes that are in need of code
compliance certification?
A. The City would like to see that the progress was made
and the building brought up to compliance standards.
If the homeowner's having trouble financially, the
homeowner can seek an extension of time from you,
correct?
A. I'm still confused as to this time frame that you're
establishing.
Q. Let's say that there's pressure by neighbors or other
third parties to get a property brought back up to code,
and the homeowner's having financial trouble, can the
homeowner look to you and say, I need some more time
because I'm having trouble financially. I can't pay for
all the work at once. I've got to spread this work
A. We don't put a time frame on category 2 buildings.
Q. So a homeowner could take two, three, four years if they
wanted to get a property through a category 2?
A. It's possible.
Q. As long as you're monitoring the exterior of a property
in compliance with the codes?
A.One of their concerns would be to make sure their
permits do not get voided out for lack of completion,
and the State dictates that to the City because the City
adopts the building code, and I believe the building
code says 180 days.
Q. So when the permits are taken out there's a period of
180 days before the permit will expire, correct?
A. The permit expires if work does not continue during the
180 days.
Q. if you had work started during the 180 days, would the
permit then last longer than 180 days?
A. Correct.
Q. How long could the work last if you had some work
started in the first 180 days, but did not do any work
thereafter?
MS. SEEBA: Speculation. Go ahead and answer,
if you can answer.
THE WITNESS: It's my understanding that the
building department would hold the permit open as long
as work continues and it's not lapsed for 180 days.
BY MR. SHOEMAKER:
Q. Is not lapsed for 180 days?
A. Yes. So provided that the contractor or permittee did
not abandon the project for a period of 180 days, the
permit would remain open.
The permit would remain valid and the homeowner could
continue to at their pace do the renovation that was
requireed?
A. Correct.
Q. During your conversations with homeowners that are in
the vacant building code compliance process, do you at
times learn personal information about the particular
owner?
A.Yes.
Q. How does that happen?
A. They tell me.
Q. So what type of personal information have you obtained,
or what has been disclosed to you by homeowners?
A. How much they paid for the building.
Q. So in addition to how much they paid for the building,
would you also learn how much they paid on any type of
contract work they have already done?
MS. SEEBA: Speculation.
MR. SHOEMAKER:
Q. Have you ever been told that?
A. Yes.
Q. And how much the bid is for a particular part of a
remodeling project -- has that been conveyed to you by
homeowners?
Have homeowners that are in this code compliance
certification process told you about difficulties they
are having paying, let's say, mortgages or liens on the
property?
A. Yes.
Q. Would they also tell you from time to time where they're
at with regard to their property tax situation?
A. They have.
Q. Do homeowners tell you from time to time when they are
in this process that they are having difficulty with
other financial obligations that they have?
A. They have.
Have homeowners confided in you and told you that they
don't have the money to complete the code certification
process?
A. They have.
Have homeowners told you in this process that they're
facing bankruptcy?
A. Yes.
Q. Have you ever offered any type of assistance to
individuals who have provided information to you
concerning their difficulties as it relates to sources
that they could go to for help?
A. Yes.
From a standpoint where a homeowner has told you that they're having financial difficulty, do you have
referral sources for, let's say, loans for individuals?
A. Yes.
Q. What kind of sources would you have at your disposal to refer a homeowner to in those situations? 5
A. PED. HRA.
Q. Those are city agencies, PED and HRA?
A. Correct. 8
Q. Any other sources other than City sources of funding for
the homeowner that's having difficulty with a code
compliance?
A. Loca' CDCs.
Q. Explain that, would you?
A. Local community development corporations.
Q. And they at times have funding for properties that are
within their jurisdiction?
A. Correct.
Q. How about any other source of funding for a homeowner
that's having difficulty going through a code compliance?
A. Not that I recall.
Q. What have you seen in your work as a vacant building Inspector, Mr. Magner, whether it was as an inspector or as a supervisor from a standpoint of the cost bids that
have been put across your desk as it relates to how much
a code compliance would cost a homeowner? Have you seen
a wide range of numbers?
A. Correct.
Q. What's been the most expensive code compliance plan
that's been submitted to you in your 11 or 12 years as a
vacant building inspector?
A. Probably somewhere in the neighborhood of millions of
dollars.
Q. Dependlng upon the size of the building, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you deal with structures other than single-family
duplexes?
A. Correct.
Q. So you're dealing with even C of 0 buildings, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. How about with regard to single-family homes, what's the
highest dollar value that you can recall a code
compliance bid came in for a homeowner to do a complete
code compliance?
A. Depends on what the owner's going to put into it.
Q. But I'm just talking about, what do you recall from when
they submit plans to you and they've got contractors
that have given them bids -- what's the highest amount
you remember from a single-family code compliance bid?
A. My recollection would be somewhere in the neighborhood of $100,000.
Q. Do you remember a gentleman by the name of Kos Jahangiri
on a *** Farrington property a couple years back?
A. Not offhand.
Q. He submitted -- from what! see in the legislative
hearing documents he submitted some bids to your office
that totaled almost $106,000. Does that ring a bell to
you?
A. Not offhand.
Q. On an older property that would have been built prior to
World War I, can it typically cost $80, $90, $100,000 to
go through a code compliance?
A. It's possible.
Q. How often does that happen?
A. I don't know.
Q. How often do you have properties that you're dealing
with yourself that were built prior to World War I?
A. All the time.
Q. The housing stock in the City of St, Paul has a
significant portion that was built prior to World War
II, correct?
A. The majority of the homes built in the City of St. Paul
were built after World War II.
Q. Let's go back to the year 2002, was that still the case?
A. correct- Bob said...
Q. What other home did they have in Roseville?
A. I believe Irene Street.
Q. Was that the two homes they owned in Roseville? Did
they have other homes?
A. I think they lived in those two.
Q. Do your parents own any other homes other than the home
on Moonlight Bay currently?
A. Not that I know of.
Q. What type of home do you live in, Mr. Magner, as far as
for layout? How many bedrooms?
A. Three.
Q. What's the square footage of your home?
MS. SEEBA: Stop right here. This is
completely irrelevant to your claims against the
defendants. It's not a property in St. Paul. It has
nothing to do with the lawsuit. I'm not gqing to let
you ask questions about his personal home.
MS. SHOEMAKER: I think it is relevant and I
certainly can go to some other questions so you can see
that it's relevant.
MS. SEEBA: Why don't you do that.
MR. SHOEMAKER: Are you instructing him not to
answer this single question or are you instructing him
not on answer any questions about his home?
MS. SEEBA: I guess I'm asking you to tell me why it's relevant. Right now it's clearly irrelevant.
MR. SHOEMAKER: I think it is relevant.
MS. SEEBA: Tell me why and I'll let him answer.
MR. SHOEMAKER: Two of the claims we have here, Louise, deal with racketeering.
MS. SEEBA: I understand that.
MR. SHOEMAKER: And there have been affidavits and statements made by individuals who own properties in
the City of St. Paul who have indicated Mr. Magner has
pressured them into selling their property, that he's pressured them into selling their property to a friendly acquaintance of his, that's he's attempted to buy
properties in the City of St. Paul, and that he has a
working relationship with at least a couple of contractors, one of whom we understand now from the
testimony of Mr. Kalis has done work on his bar. And so
as you know, the discovery scope is very broad and I
think that this is clearly relevant. I have been on
this subject for about two minutes
MS. SEEBA: Stop. I heard everything that you
said and nothing has anything to do with the square
footage of his home outside the City of St. Paul. If contractors, anything that you just said, sure,
appropriate, but I don't know -- you haven't answered my
question on why the square footage of his personal home
in Moonlight Bay is relevant.
MS. SHOEMAKER: Anything to do with his personal residence is relevant. Renovation work he's
done there, who he's had renovation work done with, his
parents across the street, any type of work that
contractors he knows have done any of that work.
MS. SEEBA: If you wantto ask him about contracting work that he's had done on his home, ask
him. I'll allow him to answer that.
MR. SHOEMAKER: Let me do that. If he was living in a 5,000 square foot house versus a 20,000
square foot house, that would be clearly relevant
considering his salary.
MS. SEEBA: I disagree, but go ahead and ask him about contracting work.
BY MR. SHOEMAKER:
Q. Mr. Magner, let me focus on your home in Stillwater.
Have you had any remodeling work on that home in the
last 15 years?
A. No.
Q. Have your parents had any work done on their home across
the street from you in the last four years?
A. Yep.
Q. Have they had to take permits out for that work?
A. Yep.
Q. Did they build that home?
A. Yes.
Q. Brand-new?
A. Yep.
Q. Did any of the contractors that you know have any work
in that property?
A. Yep.
Q. Who would that have been?
A. Mr. Nelson.
Q. Wally Nelson did work on your father's home?
A. I assume so.
Q. What do you mean you "assume so"?
A. It's my understanding that they contracted with him to
do some work.
Q. In building the new home, what kind of work, is it your
understanding that Wally Nelson actually performed on
your parents' new home?
A. I'm not sure.
Q. What type of work does Wally Nelson undertake?
A. Renovations.
Q. Does he also do new builds?
A. Correct.14 JESSAMINE AVE E -- Property Information --
Pin Number Zoning/Use HPC District
302922210160 RT1
Information disclaimer...
Data Disclaimer:-
The City of Saint Paul and its officials, officers, employees or agents does not warrant the accuracy, reliability
or timeliness of any information published by this system, and shall not be held liable for any losses caused by
reliance on the accuracy, reliability or timeliness of such information. Portions of such information may be
incorrect or not current. Any person or entity that relies on any information obtained from this system does so
at his or her own risk.
List of Activity...
NumberAddress Description Details Status
07 097608
TAL 00 CS
14
JESSAMINE
AVE E
Tall grass and
weeds
Complaint Date: 06/18/2007
Initial Inspection: 06/22/2007
Closed on: 06/25/2007
Inspector: 344
Inspection Results (most recent first):
06/22/2007: Grass/Weeds (Work Order)
Closed
07 076656
TAL 00 CS
14
JESSAMINE
AVE E
t g & w Complaint Date: 05/10/2007
Initial Inspection: 05/16/2007
Closed on: 05/17/2007
Inspector: 344
Inspection Results (most recent first):
05/16/2007: Grass/Weeds (Work Order)
Closed
06 042634
RSN 00 SS
14
JESSAMINE
AVE E
PW Sewer Permit
Type: Sanitary
Work Type: Repair
Entered on: 02/17/2006
Active/Issued
06 020571
RES 00 DM
14
JESSAMINE
AVE E
2/15/2006 - OK
to issue Demo
Permit per Tom
Riddering.
Demolition Permit
Type: Demolition Residential Demo
Issued Date: 02/15/2006
Final Date: 05/25/2006
Contractor: Holst Excavating, Inc.
Estimated Value: $12,860.00- Q. Do you know jf he was the main contractor for the home?
A. It was my understanding that my father general
contracted the property.
Q. What kind of work does Wally Nelson do, as far as you
understand it, on new homes that are being constructed?
A. I'm assuming he's a general contractor.
Q. Were you a general contractor on your father's home?
A. My father was.
Q. Do you hold any professional licenses yourself?
A. No.
Q. Have you ever?
A. No.
Q. Do you know how much the contract was between your
father and Wally Nelson's company?
A. No.
Q. Do you know how long he worked on your father's
property?
A. Six months.
Q. Permits would have had to have been taken out in the
City of Stillwater is that right?
A. No.
Q. Where?
A. May Township.
Q.Do you know how much the home cost to construct?
A. Nope.
Q. What size is that home from a standpoint of bedrooms?
A. Three bedrooms.
Q. Do you know the square footage?
2,000 square foot.
A. That's finished?
I believe so.
Q. How much unfinished?
MS. SEEBA: Objection, speculation. If you can
answer.
THE WITNESS: I think 100.
MR. SHOEMAKER:
Q. 100 square feet unfinished?
A. Yes.
Q. When was the last time you were in your parents' home
there in Stillwater?
A. Hours ago.
Q. So you know the layout of it, correct?
A. Yep.
Q. Have you ever had any work done on any of your properties by Wally Nelson or any of his companies? .
A. No.
Q. Did you have an out-building built on your property
recently?
A. Yes.
Q. What kind of out-building is that?
A. It's a pole barn.
Q. Who did the work for you on that?
A. A pole barn company. I don't recall the name.
Q. Do you remember the foundation size on that out-building?
A. It's 39 by 56.
Q. Who's'the building inspector that's responsible for your
area there in the May Township? Do you know?
A. Peter Kugel.
Q. Do you know how to speil that?
1A. K-u-g-e-I.
Q. Do you know how iong Mr. Kugel has been with May Township as a building inspector?
MS. SEEBA: Objection. Again, John, a building inspector in May Township, what does that have to do
with any of your claims?
MR. SHOEMAKER: If he's responsible for code enforcement in the City of St. Paul and he's doing work
on his property, I want to know if he's taking out
permits. It's a double standard --
MS. SEEBA: He isn't doing the work on his property. He's hired a pole barn company.
MR. SHOEMAKER:
Q. The pole barn company, do they have to pull permits on
your property?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know if they pulled the proper permits?
A. Yes.
Q. What was the reason for building the pole barn, Mr.
Magner?
A. To store personal possessions.
Q. If we talk to the building inspector, Mr. Kugel, would
he say that you were the general contractor?
A. He might.
Why would he say that?
A. I don't know. I don't know if I took out the permit or
they took out the permit.
Q. Do you have any brothers or sisters?
A. Yes.
Q. Tell me what siblings you have?
A. A sister.
Q. Where does she live?
A. Moonlight Bay.
Q. Does she have her own home?
A. Yes.
Q. Close to your home?
A. Approximately, yes.
Q. Has she had any work done on her home by Renovation,
Inc. and Wally Nelson?
A. Not that I'm aware of.
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